Heh, not of the swashbuckling variety (leave thy buckles unswashed!), or of the seizing-your-boat-and-ransoming-you variety (seriously, nobody's going to pay six bucks to get you back in this economy. You'll be lucky if your family offers up half a sammich!).
No, I'm talking about online piracy. Downloading music, movies, and games; and also sharing (eg. staying up as a 'seeder' in bit torrent, etc.).
I have my own opinions on the subject, but by now you may have noticed that I prefer to let other people chime in on a subject before offering my own position (don't want to colour the feedback, I guess).
So, do you pirate? Do you download? Upload? Do you make distinctions between the type of media? (I know some people who have different policies for music, games, books, etc.)
I don't really have an opinion some people are cheap and some publishers are blood sucking leeches.I use to pirate anime for many reason but mainly the price, subs and it never getting here also some books but those were not in print anymore.
My position is simple. If you are going to pirate, it should be try out the game. Afterwards, erase it from your system and buy the game. For example, I downloaded Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty and played the first three missions, decided it was worth it, and bought it last night. Awesome game.
I mostly listen to music on Pandora and I pay a small yearly fee to listen without time limits. I do most of my gaming on the XBox 360 through purchases, rentals or borrowing a friend's disk. I've never tried getting movies online. I usually rent them OnDemand (through XBox, don't have cable currently), through RedBox (can't beat $1/night rentals), or watching them at the dollar theater (usually costs $2 a person in the evenings). I rarely ever watch movies as soon as they come out in the theaters due to the price. I've got a nice setup at home so I don't mind waiting to watch them on DVD.
Overall, I don't usually play every game or watch every movie or have the need to collect every song I like. I usually just buy or rent the ones I really care about these days and I try to do so as cheaply as possible but still legally. I think as time goes on you get more picky about what you like just having experienced a good amount of media, so ultimately I don't think I spend that much money. I don't really want to bother with the hassle of weeding through piracy channels anyway.
As a musician, an artistically minded person, and an entrepreneur, I definitely respect the rights of creators to require payment for their creations. Theft is a pretty touchy topic for me since I was burglarized and also had my car broken into before. Digital piracy is obviously less harmful than stealing physical property, but either way I see it as taking the fruits of someone's hard wrought efforts for nothing.
What bothers me most is when people justify piracy or theft on moral grounds, saying that somehow Company X deserves it for this reason or that, or that because it's so easy to steal that makes it OK. I've heard the exact same logic applied to stealing from WalMart from multiple people. It just sounds like those people are trying to find some excuse to continue doing what they know isn't right. You can always boycott something if you don't like it instead of stealing from them.
In general, I really don't like the whole "get rich quick"/freeloading attitude, disrespect for hard work, the feeling that we somehow automatically deserve all the finest things just because we are alive, just because we (some of us) live in America or just because life isn't always fair. I see examples of this all around and I see theft as a part of this whole thing. Again, I understand piracy isn't the same thing as physical property theft at all, but I do see this societal mentality bleeding into the topic of piracy.
It's not just because I have a business either. I've felt this way for a while, and it relates to why I'm not a fan of gambling or lotteries either. I didn't have a lot of luxuries growing up so I feel very strongly about ownership rights and earning what you get. I'm not saying I've never pirated, but I think if you can afford it you should pay, and if you can't then maybe you should save up or go without.
It's funny though that in Canada piracy for personal use is legal. What happens in America if they catch you pirating? Does your Internet service provider cap your Internet speed?
Wow that's wierd. Canada really does that?
It's not really piracy if it's legal, is it?
I'm pretty sure in America you can be fined or even have jail time if the publisher wants to pursue it. However, I don't think it is pursued that heavily these days against individuals. I'm guessing companies invest more in prevention rather than conviction of individuals. However, they do threaten legal action against distributors of pirated media which usually means a letter that causes the distributor to take it down without any court fees, etc.
Here is my position:
I download torrents a lot. Movies, games and programmes (Norton, etc). Is it wrong to do this? Yes. Do I care... sort off. I genuinely feel for anyone who has worked hard on their art then it is ripped and put up for everyone and anyone to help themselves to. If they are wanting to make money that it is. It isn't fair but the world is not fair.
Do I feel bad that I do it... No. I am one person. I do not control the net and work very hard for my family. If I download my fav song or I don't, it makes absolutley no difference to anyone other than my own morals. That may seem like an backwards logic but it is still true. I love speilberg films but if he loses millions by people downloading his films then that is bad for him but I still go about my daily buisness. It is meaningless unless it directly you.
All in all it comes down to morals. I am sure we will see Ballads on some pirate website eventually and as bad as that is, there nothing that can be done, or it would have been by now.
I will always use torrents, just like I will always play the Lotto to try and take millions of ££££'s from people.
Like I said, I'm avoiding commenting on the actual topic myself, at least for now.
However, you're wrong about one thing, Steve: You're in the states, right? Then you can beat $1/night rentals at Redbox! Streaming Netflix!
(While visiting my sweetheart-in the states-we used to love Redbox... right until she got streaming Netflix. Now she doesn't bother with renting movies or cable tv)
@darkbluemullet A download doesn't mean a lost sale. That just publisher bull so they could get more support.
I doubt a small game like Ballads will get pirated. Which is both a good and bad thing.
I tried streaming Netflix, and all they had was older movies. There are no new releases available to stream. I don't mind waiting a few months for a new movie but I'd rather not wait years. :)
Darkroot, downloads do account for large amounts of lost revenue. It's not like every download would have been a sale otherwise, as of course people will download stuff that they wouldn't have bought otherwise, but there's plenty of cases where people choose not to go to the movies because they know they can just download the torrent, for example.
Not true, it's even been proven that pirate != lost sales. If pirating were to stop existing companies would only see a tiny marginal increase in sales. People download things they don't even want or like most of the delete it before if getting 5 mins into a game. That's not including the people that buy the game afterwards. With movies it's even more present. When a movie comes out a crappy cam torrent comes out that is unwatchable. Most people that would have wanted to see it do so the others watch the torrent.
Darkroot, it's possible that sales aren't majorly affected, but I'm skeptical of how well that could be proven considering how many dynamic factors there are.
Do you think piracy != lost sales would be true if publishers didn't proactively go after file sharing sources and request file removals or dump garbage versions on them?
There have been studies on games and iphone/ipad. Most people download just because they can. Even EA says that piracy != lost sales and judging by how much it is their business I would say they know.
All major file sharing sources have not been affected by publishers (from my limited knowledge) and I haven't heard of garbage versions being uploaded.
Still not commenting on the original topic, but:
I've been thinking and reading more about this topic, and I saw a viral image that says piracy is not theft because it's not taking the original but just making a copy. I don't think this argument has been made here but I wanted to talk about it.
Consider the case where someone has taken provocative photos of themself and given them to their lover digitally for their eyes only. Let's say a roommate notices the computer is unlocked while the computer owner stepped out for a second, browses around and finds the photos and makes copies for himself. He has not removed the original, so is it theft?
IMO, it is definitely theft, because the owner did not grant permission for the roommate to take that copy. The copy was taken without permission, ie stolen.
In this case the digital property was not for sale, but it doesn't change the basic ownership rights. When digital property is for sale, like with music or movies, the owner has the legal and moral right to require payment for their owned property.
Even if it's incidentally true that piracy helps sales rather than hurts them (which I seriously doubt), it doesn't change the fact that the downloader does not have permission to take a copy and therefore is in the wrong.
There's an idea called social contract ethics that I prefer over a strictly situational consequentialist worldview, and I think it is our duty as citizens to respect ownership rights. We can't expect high quality digital entertainment without expecting to pay for it. Something's got to give.
I understand that piracy happens and that in some ways it's revolutionizing the industry and marketplace. That being say, should we as individuals make a conscious choice to pirate? For me, the answer is no.
@If you want studies you can easily google them :)
Earl DS is an entirely a different creature and the R4 does hurt developers but more people buy the DS in the process and possibly buy games.
I never said studies were facts, but they are information that can give you a better understanding of the subject and both views.
Well looks like this discussion is not very neutral which saddens me.
I tried googling it, but didn't find anything.
(You are using scholar.google.com, right? Otherwise you'll just get pieces about as believable as blogs)
I'm not sure what you mean by 'neutral' in this context. I asked for people's views. If people are for or against piracy, or selectively so for different circumstances/media, then there's no 'wrong' answer. Expecting neutrality would be akin to expecting everyone to simply say, "meh". :)
Nope I get studies using plain old google http://www.hbs.edu/research/pdf/09-132.pdf.
"Meh" would be not caring and not having an opinion. By neutral I really mean not open minded. Its seems both of you are pretty dead sent against piracy without go over the possible good things. I personal think Piracy is good and bad but even my opinion is meaningless because I don't fully understand the full system. So how can I possibly hate or like it?
"Neutral" and "open-minded" are far from synonyms. :)
What's more, I haven't even mentioned my personal opinions once yet on the subject. So asserting that I've made up my mind and am close-minded are some rather forceful accusations.
All I've said is that, when people refer to 'studies', it's best when they actually include them; that google's search tool specifically for scholarly work is more reliable (for example, that 'study' you linked is a 'working paper'. That means it's someone's attempt at research, but hasn't yet been accepted); that some developers have taken the precise opposite position that you said another developer might have, and that Netflix streaming is awesome.
And maybe I am a bit close-minded on that last one, because there's no way you'll convince me that it doesn't rock. :D
(in all seriousness, my point is that I've only commented on arguments; not made any arguments of my own, for or against)
I knowwww... I swear Earl one day I'll bear blast you :p.
I don't know much about netflix, tevoo or anything else TV related. I have a tiny old sd tv so you can imagine that I don't like watching it at all. Do you need a certain setup for it?
(what about the DS comment?)
(The DS comment was just a complement to your EA comment.)
You're in Canada, right? Netflix streaming isn't available here yet, but it's coming soon. In the states, all you need is a subscription (bloody cheap), and a broadband connection.
You can watch tv and movies on your computer (PC or Mac), or on your tv with a compatible set (not terribly common), a dvd player that supports it (slightly more common, but not much), or with a Wii, PS3, or XBox 360.
Netflix on Wii is perfect for SD televisions. And high-def movies/tv on the PS3 looks beautiful on a 720p screen (that's all I've tested it on).
Honestly, the only thing that concerns me about the service coming here to Canada is that I think most Canadian ISPs have download caps, don't they? Netflix streaming is a wonderful replacement for tv, but if I were downloading as often as I have a tv going... I have to think that'd be a problem with a cap.
and, uh... piracy piracy. (see? I'm still on-topic!)
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