http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/tags/flash Imaginitive Game Development en-US Mon, 04 Jan 2021 02:30:34 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/search.php http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5588 Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:24:52 +0000 SteveCastro 5588@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>I do like the idea of still using 2D vectors for resolution independent graphics. All the stuff I'm interested in tends to be cartoonish anyway, and of course for Jay as well, so it should be doable in some way.</p> <p>However, even cartoon graphics look even better with an illustrated painterly look, with painted shading/lighting, which might be harder to capture with vectors. I feel like 2D gameplay with 3D graphics still doesn't quite capture the feel that I really love with games like Braid, Spelunky, Machinarium, and I imagine 2D vector rendered graphics having the same limitation.</p> <p>Just seems like nothing beats a lovingly hand-crafted pre-rendered spritesheet. FYI, I'm not a fan of 8-bit graphics either, I'm talking about HD cartoony characters.</p> <p>However, as a developer it is a pain to have to maintain a number of different assets for different resolutions. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5585 Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:01:37 +0000 Earl 5585@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>The one concern I have with going from vector back to raster is the issue of dealing with multiple resolutions.<br /> Example, a 720p television is far better than an old-school 480i, right? All other things considered equal, the answer is easy: Yup.</p> <p>But, try playing something like the Wii (or pretty much any other 'standard def' media source) on 720p television, and they'll look like crap (or possibly simply "bad", if the tv is particularly good at intelligent scaling).</p> <p>The same thing happens when playing old videogames on emulators, and trying anything other than their original native resolution, or some multiple thereof.</p> <p>The way Android wants you to solve this is to simply include multiple copies of <em>all</em> of your graphics resources. That's needlessly large. And, it still doesn't really perfectly match different resolutions.</p> <p>Of course, the other fun side of the coin is the difference between actual resolution (pixel density), and what we typically call resolution (dimensions). It seems like it <em>should</em> have solutions that overlap with the previously mentioned one, but in practice it may not. (Google's developer site has some interesting perspective on this, but think about things like font sizes, and it's quick to see the issue)</p> <p>Bah. I did it again. Never was "concise". The point is, with both the trend towards mobile markets, and the increasing variety of high-powered mobile devices, vector graphics were good because they could be adapted to anything. Raster images simply aren't as flexible.</p> <p>In theory, developers are starting to be encouraged to use things like HTML5, SVG, etc., for the actual content of games, and then a small bit of native-friendly framework to run it on top of. In practice, I've yet to see that actually catch on. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5584 Sun, 19 Aug 2012 10:27:02 +0000 darkbluemullet 5584@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>It does run but as Jay said, like crap. I had the Kongregate Arcade App at one point on my phone but deleted it after a few days because almost every game was nearly unplayable. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5583 Sun, 19 Aug 2012 10:15:06 +0000 tman140 5583@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Correction Jay, It doesn't run on mobile devices. :( </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5582 Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:53:27 +0000 darkbluemullet 5582@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>So basically moving from AS3 to C++? Last question (promise). When you are working with Flash, can you only write in AS? And with Marmalade, is that a multi language platform? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5581 Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:40:25 +0000 JayZiebarth 5581@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Well I think if we're doing web games we'll still use flash as we always have. The real change will be if we make bigger games like Ballads, then we'll probably use Marmalade to create it.</p> <p> To succeed in the commercial space these days your game really has to be multi platform and mobile ready, which Marmalade allows for. I still love using Flash, unfortunately it runs like crap on mobile devices. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5580 Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:18:53 +0000 tman140 5580@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>yup, adobe's decision... just remembered a old post where i asked about flash dying out... lol guess I was right. They stopped supporting all mobile platforms and are sticking to pc/mac/linux. I also remember rumors in Jan about them deciding to go pull flash out completely in 2013. we will see i guess. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5579 Sat, 18 Aug 2012 04:47:09 +0000 darkbluemullet 5579@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>So (remembering that I am a noob), what platform will your art be exported to and then the game developed on? I am assuming that when you upload a game to sites when it goes viral, it is .fla file? What will it be now and will that affect anything? i.e. sites that only accept .fla or anything like that? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5577 Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:20:09 +0000 JayZiebarth 5577@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Right now it hasn't affected how I actually create the art and animations. I still use Flash in the same way. If anything it has freed me up to colour the scenes any way I want now that flash performance isn't an issue. The big change for me is having to export everything as bitmaps and create sprite sheets for all my animations. Which is an added step but not that big of a deal. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5575 Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:09:46 +0000 darkbluemullet 5575@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>It does seem that HTML5 is growing all the time. Unity has really impressed me. Some of the games I have played are absolutely huge and fell as though they should be pay to play at times. Regarding the bitmap rendering, will that affect how you guys (Jay in particular) tackle the art of future games or will it remain the same way that Jay does it now? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5573 Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:56:08 +0000 SteveCastro 5573@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Very cool DBM! Good luck with school.</p> <p>HTML5 seems very promising. Unity is cool. There are other cross-platform tools like Moai (<a href="http://getmoai.com/" rel="nofollow">http://getmoai.com/</a>) using Lua scripting and Marmalade (<a href="http://madewithmarmalade.com/" rel="nofollow">http://madewithmarmalade.com/</a>) using C++. Anything that is cross-platform and performs well on lower processing speeds is where you want to be.</p> <p>Flash was cool when processing power wasn't really an issue (though even with Ballads we ran into some issues with lots of alphas), but I think the mobile scene brought us back to worrying about processors, plus battery life. So we need more performance optimization than Flash currently offers with its timeline and vector based approach, but still have the quality expectations that the Flash gaming scene has created.<br /> Flash is also awesome for rapid-development but typically at the expense of performance.</p> <p>Basically, all of the good options going forward use bitmap rendering again instead of vector drawings so they can perform better on all kinds of devices. I think it's interesting that Castle Crashers was made in Flash using vectors, but when running on the XBox while loading a level it converts all the vector data into bitmap data.</p> <p>That's just my take on it at this particular time. I'm no expert on the subject, just learning as I go. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5572 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:09:18 +0000 darkbluemullet 5572@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Believe it or not, I am away to go back to full time education, studying Software Development! (I am going to do a long winded post here soon...)</p> <p> If Flex/Flash is on the way out what do you feel is the future Steve? HTML5? What does that mean for you guys then in terms of web games?</p> <p> What does your C++ knowledge give you now that you didn't have before?</p> <p> Tell me it all!! :) </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5571 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 09:37:19 +0000 SteveCastro 5571@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Very interesting. I looked into it, and it's actually Adobe who decided they won't be supporting it on Android it seems?</p> <p>I definitely think that it's a great time for us to be learning mobile development with something other than Flash at this point because it does seem to be in the process of fading out.</p> <p>I have to say, now that I'm using C++ it really is nice to have the kind of power to do anything or change anything under the hood that we need. I know with Ballads we were really pushing the limits of what Flash could handle, and I was starting to run into some of the strangest quirks in the way Flash processes things behind the scenes, so I'm glad to be branching out right now. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5570 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 09:04:44 +0000 darkbluemullet 5570@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Very odd to say the least. have they said why? Google must have something up it's sleeve. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/android-41-no-longer-flash-supported#post-5569 Mon, 13 Aug 2012 19:59:13 +0000 tman140 5569@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Well, i just learned that flash is no longer supported on Jelly Bean, androids newest version. I was gonna get a nexus 7 because i am taking a class where we make android apps, and was wanting one anyway because of flash support instead of apples no flash policy. darn. anyone else bummed about this? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/flash-is-going-by-by-what-now-for-jay-and-steve#post-5302 Thu, 05 Apr 2012 09:52:59 +0000 tman140 5302@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>I stand corrected... you can make games... LOL! </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/flash-is-going-by-by-what-now-for-jay-and-steve#post-5301 Thu, 05 Apr 2012 08:26:14 +0000 SteveCastro 5301@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>This game was made in HTML5, and it even has multiplayer: <a href="http://browserquest.mozilla.org/" rel="nofollow">http://browserquest.mozilla.org/</a></p> <p>It's really a lot more than just HTML.</p> <p>HTML5 looks like great technology, it's just hard to imagine everybody jumping on it since the code is completely open unless you require server side aspects. Since anyone can take the code and do what they want with it for disconnected games, it seems like it'd be a lot more difficult for developers to distribute their games as is and sell to sponsors. Why would someone pay money to get their logo put into the game when they can just edit it themselves? Tons of portals would just steal it and modify it to their liking.</p> <p>I think HTML5 would be awesome if you could package it up like a Flash SWF and it was guaranteed to simply work consistently in every environment. I really need to read up on it more though, cuz I don't know everything that's possible with it.</p> <p>The Unity plugin is cool, but a ton of people still don't have it right now compared to Flash, so if you're doing 2D art like we are it wouldn't make sense for us to move to that right now either. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/flash-is-going-by-by-what-now-for-jay-and-steve#post-5300 Thu, 05 Apr 2012 08:00:24 +0000 tman140 5300@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Yah, me and my friend (He develops some stuff on newgrounds) were talking about this so i wanted to see what you guys thought about it. I really don't even see how you can use HTML5 to make a game. Isn't that used for making webpages? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/flash-is-going-by-by-what-now-for-jay-and-steve#post-5298 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:49:59 +0000 SteveCastro 5298@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Personally I don't feel any squeeze when it comes to Flash right now. Newgrounds and Kongregate and thousands of other portals and sponsors still use Flash and it's really hard to believe that's just going to drop off all of a sudden. There are new advancements for Flash developers still popping up like spaceport.io, which makes me think it's not just going to disappear too soon.</p> <p>I'm not too worried about it because I know other languages like C++ and JavaScript, so we'll adapt when the time is right. However, we can still make games in Flash and package them as an EXE like we did for the Ballads executable if we wanted to. Also, there's a tool from Google that converts Flash vectors into vector XML useable in HTML5, so that's pretty neat.</p> <p>I'm very curious to see how people are going to monetize HTML5 games. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/flash-is-going-by-by-what-now-for-jay-and-steve#post-5297 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:07:19 +0000 Earl 5297@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>The one thing to remember about HTML5 (at least, from a games position) is that it's really only being pushed by people who want to see it adopted.<br /> There are relatively few cases of it being 'the platform of choice' for modern casual browser-based games.</p> <p>Could this change? Absolutely, it could. But, if it does, it'll be driven by the desire to publish 'apps' with more convenient cross-platform support.</p> <p>In any event, there's (currently) no reason to think that flash is dying. It's still the first choice for particularly content-rich interactive media. That fact, coupled with the advent of suites designed solely for porting flash code... well, I'm certainly interested in what Jay and Steve have to say on the subject, but if they have something else planned, I have to think it's more because of personal/professional interest than market forces.</p> <p>(On a side note, I'm not sure how C++ got thrown in there. Compiled programs and client-side scripting aren't <em>frequently</em> given the same consideration for a given task. The only, admittedly significant, exception I can think of is for the aforementioned app development. But that's a sign of html5 taking marketshare from compiled languages like java; not of them both teaming up to detract from flash) </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/flash-is-going-by-by-what-now-for-jay-and-steve#post-5296 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:13:51 +0000 tman140 5296@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Ok... so yes... Im alive (been taking time to learn java and C++), and was wondering... what are you guys gonna do with clickshake when flash becomes obsolete? I know that a lot of flash developers are learning HTML5 and C++, and was wondering if you guys have any experience with other software or are learning it or what? Umm... I think you get what im trying to say here... sooo.... yeah.... </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-585 Sat, 15 May 2010 08:47:14 +0000 Palo 585@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Heh. I just scan my drawings and convert to vector with Inkscape. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-525 Wed, 12 May 2010 02:22:25 +0000 JayZiebarth 525@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>It's really just practice, you have to train your brain to think of the computer screen as paper and not look at your hand while you draw. </p> <p>When I first started I attempted the same trace off paper technique with horrible results. It's best if you abandon that path right now. Just start small, practice drawing circles while looking at the computer screen. Don't be scared to angle your tablet to compensate for how your hand works. I find the faster you draw the better, if you go too slow it sometimes gets jagged and inaccurate, get a flow to your line the same way you would on paper. I learned on the job at an animation studio, so it was sink or swim. I think it was probably a full week of practicing every day before I really got the hang of it. Now its second nature. A lot of the backgrounds in my game were drawn completely in flash without ever drawing anything on paper. </p> <p>Also, another technique. Draw a really fast sketch just to get a nice flow to your drawing, don't worry about making it clean. Just get it drawn rough and messy. Then on a separate layer, turn the below drawing to an outline or onion skin it and then do a final line cleanup of it. That's how I approach everything I draw with a tablet in flash. </p> <p>Just keep practicing, the bubble will eventually pop and you'll just see the computer screen as a blank sheet of paper. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-523 Tue, 11 May 2010 22:47:42 +0000 Darkroot 523@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>Oh ok thank I've been trying to do too much at the same time.</p> <p>Also whats the diffrence between working with a table and without? Every time I try to draw something with one it looks scewed even if I trace it with a paper being on top of the tablet. Any tips for try to concentrate on what your drawing and the computer screen? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-520 Tue, 11 May 2010 21:10:31 +0000 JayZiebarth 520@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>start super simple with a really small manageable game. I'd say program with temp art first just to make sure the idea works. Once it's together you can update all the artwork. </p> <p>art, pre-loader and menu are the final touches. </p> <p>Game design document, if its just you making the game you don't need to get too elaborate with it. Just use it to keep all of your ideas in order. </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-519 Tue, 11 May 2010 20:33:24 +0000 Darkroot 519@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>I would like to ask Jay or Steve how you begin to develop a flash game I've been trying to but I always run into a barrier of not knowing where to start or where to start first. Should I make the game first or the art?, The preloader or the menu? Should I make a game design document? </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-334 Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:12:51 +0000 tman140 334@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>nice!<br /> thats awesome! </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-332 Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:43:48 +0000 darkbluemullet 332@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>That site looks fantastic Jay. Thanks for the heads up! </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-331 Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:31:03 +0000 JayZiebarth 331@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>To add to the flash game discussion, here's a new site that just popped up for making flash games.</p> <p><a href="http://flashgamedojo.com/" rel="nofollow">http://flashgamedojo.com/</a> </p> http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/topic/starting-out-in-flash-games/page/2#post-292 Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:18:30 +0000 tman140 292@http://www.clickshakegames.com/forum/ <p>@Darkroot yeah its more of a 3d animator. it sometimes can be posted online. its great for beginners. </p>